War on Life: The Kidnapping And Torture of Rico Martinez Nagel

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 “They aren’t gonna quit. It doesn’t end. There can’t be two of them. Can you imagine if Lindsey had a baby after 22 years and the baby lived? Can you imagine? It didn’t happen to Lindsey. It happened to Rico.”

Steve Nagel, grandfather of Rico





We’ve kept quiet about the situation since December, 2012. Lindsey Nagel gave birth to a healthy baby boy on December 19. He was supposed to come home a few days later. He is still not home. He remains in the hospital, in state custody, covered in tubes. So battered and destroyed by force fed ARV drugs, the family has begun to wonder if Rico will make it.

“I don’t know if Rico will make it out of the hospital, at this point,” said Rico’s grandfather, Steve Nagel. “He’s basically on life support right now. He’s 7 pounds. He needs his family. He needs love. But they couldn’t let this mother have a baby that lived too. I’m all cried out over this. It’s just unbelievable.”


Rico and Lindsey


The same day Rico was born, while Lindsey was resting, three figures appeared at the foot of her bed.  It was an infectious disease doctor, a lawyer and a social worker.  They told her that unless she consented to being tested for HIV, and allowed them to test Rico for HIV, they were going to turn Lindsey in to Mower county Social Services for child endangerment.” 

Cheryl Nagel, grandmother of Rico









I have covered the HIV wars, in gory detail, and with increasing shock, since Peter Duesberg’s first critique appeared in the literature in 1987, in Cancer Research, arguing against “retroviruses” as causes of cancer and or pathogens capable of causing “AIDS.”

You know, this “war,” it always has a precise location at a given time, a portal–a human being, or family, through whom it beats its message of ultra violence, its domination, its will to prevail. It is blind with rage and fear, and it does not know how to differentiate between killing and “saving lives.” If it has to kill in the name of saving lives, it will.

It–the dark, grey, meaningless, Godforsaken evil– has now gotten a small baby boy in its grip, and his life is hanging in the balance, as I write this.

The boy’s name is Rico Martinez Nagel. His mother is Lindsey Nagel, familiar to many of you. Lindsey was adopted by her parents, Steve and Cheryl Nagel, from Romania, as an infant, in 1990. She was tested for “HIV” in Romania, and tested negative. Upon arriving to the United States, she was re-tested and tested positive. Shortly after arriving to her new home with her new loving family, in Minneapolis, MN, her parents prepared for her imminent death, after doctors gave their grave prophecies that she would probably not live past the age of two. She was put on AZT. She suffered, of course–AZT being “the antithesis of life,” and a chemotherapeutic agent that kills all dividing cells. She screamed day and night, she stopped eating, she stopped growing. Her parents were assured this was all the effects of the deadly virus, HIV.

Cheryl’s father one day happened upon an article in The National Review, by Tom Bethell, about the critique of German cancer virologist Peter Duesberg, asserting the harmless nature of HIV and explaining why HIV can’t cause AIDS. What a “retrovirus” was exactly, was unclear then–the field was very new. Today the matter is even more opaque. But Duesberg pointed to the elephant in the room: Prior to Robert Gallo’s astonishing declaration at a press conference in April of 1984, that his lab had isolated a novel retrovirus and that it was determined to be the “probable cause of AIDS,” (by the next day, “the cause of AIDS”) retrovirology as a field was in agreement that retroviruses were non pathogenic, or “harmless,” i.e. did not kill cells.

The Nagels (in 1992) wrote to him in Berkeley, despairing about their “HIV positive” daughter suffering on AZT.   “Dr. Duesberg, if Lindsey were your daughter, what would you do?” they asked.

Duesberg, speaking now as bio-chemist, wrote back, sending a dossier of scientific papers, and a hand written cover letter that said: “If you don’t take your daughter off AZT right away she will die, like Kimberly Bergalis…” (who perished on AZT and other “nukes,” from the early years of AIDS treatment.)

Lindsey had been on AZT for 22 months. Her growth had flatlined–she was literally not growing, at all, and barely eating, and spending most of her waking hours screaming. Despite dire threats from Lindsey’s doctors, the Nagels took their daughter off the drug.

“We decided we’d rather she have three good months than six bad ones,” her father Steve said.

Lo and behold, the “deadly virus” stopped being deadly, right away–coinciding perfectly with the cessation of the DNA chain terminating chemotherapy going into her system. Lindsey started growing and thriving, normally. She put on weight, fast. All her normal functions returned. The doctors continued to browbeat the Nagels in a protracted battle; They kept insisting Lindsey would die, soon, they knew not when exactly, if she were not put back on the drug. She would not live to age five. She would not live to age seven. She would not see “double digits.” And so forth. The Nagels prevailed. The system (which Duesberg calls “the Reich”) was not organized at that time, to simply seize a child and forcibly medicate. Or else they just got lucky. In any event, they got away with it. They got away with saving their daughter’s life and also keeping custody of her.

Lindsey grew up. She never manifested any sickness.

When she was 19, she met Peter Duesberg for the first time, at a 2009 screening in Nashville for the documentary House of Numbers.  I took this photo of the two of them in the parking lot of the airport.









Lindsey’s father Steve, some years back, did some research, to see what happened to the others. At the time Lindsey was “diagnosed” there were 12 children in the state of Minnesota under the age of 10 who had also been diagnosed HIV positive. Steve found that the other 11 were dead. Lindsey, the only child who got off the “lifesaving drugs” train, is the only one who made it out alive. Her life was saved by clear and unambiguous intervention of Peter Duesberg, routinely accused of being a mass murderer, for “denying” that “HIV causes AIDS.” Her life was also saved by her parents intuition, clear thinking, and courage.

I went to visit the Nagels in 2009, in Minneapolis, and I met the extended family–Cheryl’s parents, and her amazing sister Pam, her husband Wes, and their kids. I was thinking to myself: This is a story about the heartland. Watching them, I understood how they all had a hand in Lindsey’s safe passage. Nobody was taken in by mumbo jumbo.

Steve still had a dark cloud he struggled with. “This isn’t over,” he said then. “It starts all over again when Lindsey gets pregnant and starts a family.”

I remember looking at Steve and wondering if he was not being unduly worried.


In September of 2012, Cheryl Nagel called me. “I have good news,” she said. “Lindsey is expecting.”

She also told me that Lindsey was engaged to the baby’s father, that the family adores him, and that his name is John.

I was thrilled, and I trilled and cheered and congratulated, and jumped up and down.

Lindsey always was in my mind the princess of life, the one happy ending, the only triumph. The AIDS orthodoxy, which celebrates openly and luridly when an “AIDS denialist,” dies, obviously were driven mad by Lindsey’s existence. She undermines the notion that HIV antibodies signal impending sickness and death, for one, and clarifies the terrible truth about AZT therapy, namely that it killed “a whole generation of AIDS patients,” as German MD. Claus Koehnlein has said.

Case in point:

At a panel discussion for the Nashville screening of  House of Numbers, I sat on a panel with, among others, Cheryl and Lindsey. A furious activist from the AIDS orthodoxy–Jeanne Bergman stood up from the audience, almost foaming at the mouth–and began attacking us all. I pointed to Lindsey: “May I ask a question?” I said to her. I pointed to Lindsey: “Can we agree Lindsey is sitting there, right there, and that she is real, and that she is alive?” Bergman went ballistic. “YOU ARE SUCH A F$%&NG LIAR!” she hollered, over and over, being escorted from the room by security. (To indicate the door through which the panelists should exit to attend the gathering afterwards, somebody had written a sign and put it on the door:

“F–ng Liars This Way.” )


Cheryl attended many of Lindsey’s prenatal visits with her daughter. Everything was normal and fine. At no point were they counseled or urged to take ARV therapy during pregnancy. (This detail will become crucial later.)

On December 19, 2012, at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN, Lindsey gave birth to Rico, a healthy baby boy. His blood counts were indicative of health and a normal immune system.  Lindsey had repeatedly declined HIV testing for Rico.












Barely ten minutes after giving birth,  Lindsey was ambushed by hospital workers telling her if she declined testing she would lost custody of Rico. But they had already tested Rico, obviously. Afraid and cornered, Lindsey and John agreed to their demands.


 AZT Label: “Toxic By Inhalation”



Here is Cheryl Nagels account of the events that unfolded after that:


“Rico had meconium in his lungs and they thought he had an infection, so at first all we knew was that he would be placed on an antibiotic, and had to go to the NICU for awhile.

The same day Rico was born, while Lindsey was resting, three figures appeared at the foot of her bed.  It was an infectious disease doctor, a lawyer and a social worker.  They told her that unless she consented to being tested for HIV, and allowed them to test Rico for HIV, they were going to turn Lindsey in to Mower county Social Services for child endangerment.  When Lindsey refused, the lawyer turned on his heels, walked toward the door, and started dialing his cell phone.  The door slammed behind him, and he was gone.

We were shocked!  Steve had the nurse call the lawyer, and asked if we could have 10 minutes to think things over.  So the four of us, Lindsey, John, Steve and I agreed that we better comply with their demands.

We knew Lindsey was HIV positive, but of course, we weren’t sure about Rico because there is not an accurate test for babies, as they usually carry their mother’s antibodies to HIV until about 18 months.  85% of babies born to HIV positive mothers shed their “maternal antibodies” by themselves and never truly become HIV positive, even without any drugs.

Lindsey was never counseled to take drugs while she was pregnant, which would have decreased Rico’s chances of being positive to 2%! No one bothered to tell her that, even though upon our first visit to the midwife unit on June 13, Lindsey and I  told the nurse all about HIV, and Lindsey’s experience with AZT.   Lindsey didn’t want the HIV test, as she knew she was positive, so why take the test again?

In the second and third days of his life, Rico was placed on a battery of drugs, including the very toxic drug that almost killed Lindsey – AZT.   By day 14 of his life, he was also placed two other anti-HIV drugs.  One of the drugs he was on is 45% alcohol, so it was no wonder Rico slept most all the time.

Lindsey started breast-feeding Rico when he was 6 days old.  He took to it pretty well, despite the fact he’d had a feeding tube for the first few days.  A breast-feeding specialist visited Lindsey every morning, and assisted with Rico, and soon he was breastfeeding 100% of the time, and we got to go home!  Lindsey and John stayed at Ronald McDonald House for a few extra days, and visited Rico’s pediatrician as an outpatient for a few days.  We were so happy!  Rico would finally come home!

Steve called the doctor and cancelled an appointment for January 15, as both John and Lindsey wanted to get a second opinion about Rico’s condition.  We were told by a friend, to go to Seattle to see a physician there.   So we visited our family in the Twin Cities, and headed to Seattle on January 16 later that afternoon.  We drove to Fargo/Moorhead and spent the night.  The next morning we got up and headed west.  But the further we got from home we were having second thoughts.  The biggest thing is that during a phone call with the doctor from Seattle, we realized that he doesn’t work with pediatrics.  Then Steve called and told us Child Protective Services wanted to meet Lindsey and John in half an hour!  They had given us no warning.  We didn’t know we were being assessed by CPS!  The next day, after we’d driven home, CPS arrived, as well as the Sheriff. They handed us some papers and took Rico right out of Lindsey’s arms. It was the worst thing I’ve ever witnessed…

They drove off with him, and for five long days we had no information about where he even was. Finally we found out he was back in the hospital and that they were feeding him via a tube, because Lindsey was not there to breastfeed him.

The medical staff and CPS had researched Steve and me.  We’d participated in a documentary film in 2009, telling the story of how Lindsey almost died from AZT but survived. It was clear that the doctors were suspicious of our views, and it was as if they decided to punish Lindsey and John because we had the nerve to defy medical orders 20 years ago, even though their our decision to do so saved our daughter’s life.

At the hearing the judge asked CPS what their “cause” was to remove this baby from his parents.  It appeared that a cancelled doctor’s appointment was the cause to remove Rico.  Though we don’t like the idea, Lindsey and John did NOT defy medical orders!  Lindsey and John gave Rico his meds faithfully, twice a day.  The county attorney stated that Steve and I did not believe HIV caused AIDS, and were against AIDS drugs.

When CPS picked Rico up, he was supposed to go live with foster parents.  The foster mom met the CPS social worker at the sheriff’s station and discovered that Rico was congested, and had trouble sucking out of a bottle.  After breastfeeding for two weeks, it’s no wonder!  So he ended up back at the hospital, and had to be fed once again, with a tube.  Two weeks ago he had a gastric tube installed, and when he comes home he will continue to be fed via the tube.   All because of a missed doctor’s appointment!”

Here is a video that shows Rico’s abduction:

Right now, Rico remains in the hospital, with seven medications, including AZT, pumped straight into his stomach via a GI tube. According to Mayo Clinic documents The Truth Barrier has obtained through the family, on Feb 15, they were:









Elsewhere in the medical records there is mention of IV morphine, “if pain not controlled.”



Rico weighs the same as he did at birth. The only time he gained weight was when Lindsey was breastfeeding him in the first weeks of his life, before he was seized and placed in state custody at the hospital. Then her milk dried up. He is now severely anemic from the drugs, particularly AZT, and has had three blood transfusions. His abdomen is very distended and he has facial edema as well as scrotal edema, and “abdominal wall edema.”


Some various and bizarre notations from Rico’s medical records, Feb 15:

“Rico is doing well. He is hemodynamically stable and afebrile. His abdominal examination this morning revealed a more distended abdomen.”


“Currently we have a reason for weight loss/failure to gain weight. However if he continues failing to gain weight after feeds are started, will consider repeat sleep study sooner than later.”

“Continue administration of anti-retrovirals through G-tube.”



“The maternal grandfather testified that he will leave the room during the administration of the ART because he did not want to witness the “convulsions” and “foaming at the mouth” which the child experienced during the taking of that medication.”


“He spontaneously moves his upper and lower extremities and will attempt to turn himself towards the examiner.”


So, you may ask: What are they thinking?


The language chills you right to the bone. It seems to come from a post-human planet:


“Rico is a 1-mo infant with HIV, started on HAART with triple-agent coverage. Last week, found to have a leakage of infant formula around the site of the gastronomy tube revision into the peritoneum. Subsequently, started on piperacillin/tazobactam for empiric coverage of peritonitis.”


“Parents appear overwhelmed and distressed by the various legal proceedings facing patient’s dismissal plan. Despite this, they ask appropriate questions, are involved in patient’s care, and have been compliant with requests from the medical team and Mower county thus far. Social work interventions are in place and will continue providing emotional counseling and a supportive role on behalf of patient’s best interest.”


During today’s visit, parents were attentive to patient’s needs. Parents held, rocked, and spoke to patient.”


From Jan 23:


“The child’s health and welfare would be immediately endangered if he were released to the care of his parents.”

“At the time of Dr. Youssaf’s observations of the child on January 23, 2013, the child at 33 days of age was still under his birth weight. The doctor in that service record opines, “It is my sense that much of Rico’s symptomatology, including microcephaly, axial hypotonia, delayed head control, and immature feeding pattern, can largely be explained by early neurologic manifestations of HIV infection”; “In addition, swallowing abnormalities in HIV infected children have been described in the literature recently.”

“The maternal grandfather testified that he will leave the room during the administration of the ART because he did not want to witness the “convulsions” and “foaming at the mouth” which the child experienced during the taking of that medication. The Court has nothing to base a finding upon whether the reaction of the child was associated with the medication itself or the feeding difficulties the child is experiencing.”

Perhaps the most stunningly Orwellian notation:

Reasonable and active efforts have been made to prevent the removal of the child from the home.” (Precisely the opposite occurred.)

Through the medical records, Rico is referred to as “the patient,” while Lindsey is “biological mom” and Cheryl is “maternal grandmother.”


“Mom changed patient’s diaper one time during the stay and changed him into clothing from home. Mom also had questions about the output in the vented G and asked why it was leaking. RN checked the tightness and seal on the container and determined that it needed adjusting. Mom and grandma were interactive with patient and played with toys and turned on mobile music for patient during the stay. After Mom and Grandma left, RN provided all cares to patient after they left and no other family visited or was contacted throughout shift.”


He did not have a bowel movement yesterday.”

Will update biological parents with plan of care as they are available. Currently has no legal guardian, no assigned foster parents.”

“General: He is lying in his mother’s arms in no acute distress.”


This is reality. Are you among those who look away, who still don’t know, “which side is right?”

One night about a week ago Steve Nagel called me. We spoke for over an hour.

“I grew up on a farm, and we didn’t do this to animals,” he said, about what is happening to Rico. “An animal would just be put down.”

Steve told me he isn’t at all sure Rico is going to make it.

“They aren’t going to quit,” he said. “It doesn’t end. He is so debilitated, so frail. He needs the hospital now, to stay alive. But we want to get him home. Rico has to come home and be loved whether we have to kill him with AZT or not. The number one priority is not to get him off the drugs or anything, but to get him into our home 24 hours a day.

He’s maxed out on radiation. After Lindsey and John saw him yesterday I think it sunk in that the skin on his stomach is so tight, they realize he may not come home. Rico may not make it out of the hospital. And they are going to try to pin this on the AIDS denialists, another Christine and E.J. That’s the plan. Every sentence, on every page of the massive medical report, it’s thick like a phone book, is about how all this is a manifestation of HIV. They ambushed us. It didn’t happen to Lindsey. It happened to Rico. They went through the deck and they pulled out all four aces. They had the positive test in their hands. You see, there couldn’t be two of them. Can you imagine if Lindsey had a baby after 22 years and the baby lived? Can you imagine? They could not let this baby be healthy. There’s too much at stake.”

“This has been Rico’s life. He’s been poked, prodded, radiated, turned over, poison poured down down him. His intestines are stripped, burned out. He gets no nourishment. He doesn’t have his mother. He is only alive because they put electrolytes into his bloodstream. He takes in no nourishment. He lies on his back and stares at a fluorescent light until we get there. I told Lindsey: “He doesn’t know that life could have been better. We’re the ones who know. A chicken in a cage doesnt know he’s had a bad life. If  he was looking at it from that vantage point, that this is all that life will ever be, he would die within minutes. Sometimes I wish he’d go tomorrow. Just to end this suffering. It’s beyond barbaric. It’s incomprehensible.”

At that point I broke. I started crying, and could not stop.

How? How is it possible, that it has come to this, this utter insanity, this orchestrated kidnapping and murder of an infant, turn from his mother’s arms in his home and sent to a hospital?

“It’s a war against me and Cheryl,” says Steve somberly, “because we told our story in House of Numbers and elsewhere.”


In an email last night, Cheryl Nagel wrote me:
“Just between the three of us, John prays a lot while he’s holding onto Rico.  One night when the kids were staying overnight in the hospital, Lindsey said she opened her eyes to find John sitting in the rocking chair with Rico, and was sobbing his eyes out. “
John and Rico

For more information or to find out how you can help, go to www.saverico.com 

108 thoughts on “War on Life: The Kidnapping And Torture of Rico Martinez Nagel”

  1. Honestly, it is so out of control that a baby has to be taken away when his parents were trying to protect him and give him life. Meanwhile the hospital and state are sitting there trying to kill an infant. I would grab a good lawyer and wing it do all you can bring in doctors and go to court. Have faith in justice even though they’re doing the complete wrong thing.

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  3. Why on earth did Lindsay expose herself and her child to this institutional AND foreseeable mistreatment? Didn’t she know, as a life-long dissident and by own experience, what’s in store for these “HIV babies”? Didn’t she hear of women that had to keep on the move and go underground to avoid being preyed on by Child Protection Services and the medical establishment?

    Why did she wait passively at home for the AIDS machine to go rolling over her family? I myself have lived through the hospital threats and the CPS sneak visits, being diagnosed “HIV positive” during the usual screening of pregnant women.

    But contrary to Lindsey, I saw it coming and I didn’t give them a whiff of a chance. As soon as the hospital issued the first threat I immediately packed up and left the country. When CPS came knocking at my door they only found my husband, as I was already in safety miles away. He told them what they wanted to hear: that I was under medical supervision in a birth clinic outside the country, that the beef with the hospital was about their low standard of care and that I was looking for better standards somewhere else. Never, ever tell them you don’t believe in HIV/AIDS because they’ll tag and track your family as a potential “child neglect” case.

    I could deliver my baby the natural way and under medical supervision . No HIV test, since it was a private clinic and customer is king. The price of sparing my baby the ARV torture and sequels was $4,000 plus travel expenses $1,500. If you’re and HIV positive woman and want to have a child, start saving this money before you will need it, for god’s sake, and avoid the health system as the pest. Pay your own gynecologist to do what YOU want and go far from your home jurisdiction so you won’t be bothered when you and your baby get back home.

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    This type of clever work and exposure! Keep up the excellent works guys I’ve added you guys to my personal blogroll.

  5. The idea to me that the ‘Natural Moms Movement’ (whatever it’s called) is somehow immune to this happening, what is happening to Rico and his Mama, is really not ok-not true. That idea is not being out rightly stated but that has been my interpretation. An Anonymous poster, in the comments here for example simply put the words ‘Home Birth’ as if that is the ‘end all, be all answer.’ What about in cases where C-Section is needed? Or any other kind of medical birth intervention, what is the answer there, out side of a hospital? People need to be prepared for crisis, as much as they can be, not just told to avoid it. Christine Maggiore had two home births,’ and a wealth of resources, but overtime the Orthodoxy still hounded her-endlessly and ruthlessly, until the end. Do I think home births make it more easy to avoid the Orthodoxy? Yes, when you haven’t gone public, but over time, if you go public, or even if you don’t in some cases, about going against medical advice, I think the Orthodoxy punishes people, particularly people who are into natural health. The nasty comments on here are vile. They are also ignorant. ‘HIV=AID$’ is more than ever a Religion and a for profit industry. I doubt if it was ever a real Science.

    We are all Rico in that all of our medical and personal freedoms are in danger. They want to keep their money. They don’t care who they hurt to do that-even babies. And, if your kid should ever need any kind of emergency care, in the state of MN and probably other States-here is the law: “Medical, dental, mental, and other health services may be provided to a minor without the consent of a parent or legal guardian when, in a professionals judgment, treatment should be given without delay.” (http://mn.gov/health-licensing-boards/medical-practice/) And as a Family member of Rico pointed out: “This isn’t just used for an emergency situation in the ER. This is used also to push ongoing unwanted toxic drugs on minors as well. As we are seeing with Rico.” This means pushing ARVs, vaccines, fluoride pills, Etc. on your kids, without Parental consent. I guess whatever they choose. You don’t have a say over your kids health and body-the “professional” does. In our days, I think “professional” means Big Pharma paid ‘Yes Man/Woman.’ Also, please read this: From MN Dept. of Health: “Any woman with undocumented HIV status at the time of labor should be screened with a rapid HIV test unless she declines the test.” (www.health.state.mn.us)

    Lindsey went public with her story. By doing so, she and her Family saved and informed the lives of many. Now, for her act of bravery, she is being punished and her child may die. She lived off toxic medications while many others died. Rico, her baby boy, has no voice of his own and may not get the chance to live off toxic meds like his Mama. Please people do all what you can to support this Family, because it is the right thing to do. Again, we are all Rico. Save Rico!

      1. Please, those victims had been for YEARS on ARV drugs, then their deaths are blamed on HIV even when they didn’t die on any AIDS-defining condition. Now that’s some hell of a biased interpretation of pharmaceutical reality. Boxed Warning deaths are side-effects deaths, now you can put all the lipstick you want on the pharma pig, it doesn’t cange the iatrogenic nature of those deaths. Just as iatrogenic as the deaths of scores of know AIDS drugs activists that bought the daily religious poisoning ritual as “life saving”, see a list here: http://hivskeptic.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/%E2%80%9Caids%E2%80%9D-deaths-owing-to-antiretroviral-drugs-or-to-lack-of-antiretroviral-treatment/

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  7. From what I understand Lindsey is not healthy at all, she has Aids. Otherwise her child would not have been born with HIV. She is irresponsible for bringing a child into this world, no different than a Meth mother or someone else who knowingly gives birth to a child, condemning them with thier illness.

    I hope Mayo Clinic and Mower County continue to fight and advocate for the baby.

    1. perhaps you dont know that Lindsey survived when her parents stopped giving her AZT, the same drug they are giving Rico now. read first Fear of the Invisible by Janine Roberts,then youll know the mower county is wrong!

      1. Rowena, I have reported on this, here, and in previous articles, dating back to the 90s. But the most recent one is linked in this article, in the opening graph.

    2. I completely AGREE with “normal mom”.

      I hope no one forgets that when Rico’s life ends, it’s not because of the doctors and county that tried to save his life, it’s Lindsey’s fault for bringing a child into this world with her disease. How selfish and what a disgusting person to make this look like it’s not her fault. She did not even want him tested or take proper precautions!!!

        1. Don’t you try to stifle debate like that, Celia. Normal Mom and Lindsey are quite correct. Your fear-mongering pseudo-scientific woowoo will be directly responsible for more deaths. You’re a monster, an actual monster, with blood on your hands. Be ashamed of yourself, you gullible, self-serving, head-in-clouds nitwit. Be very ashamed.

            1. And I say you would evidently rather listen to pseudoscientific woowoo than good empirical evidence (probably because it’s easier to understand the former and takes less effort). But go on believing this kind of bollocks if you wish.

      1. If you did this to an hiv negative baby… it would most likey become ill and die. You cant treat the living this way. Stop in the name of healing.

    3. You are not normal, you are extremely abnormal, in fact depraved and lacking all human impulses. You hope Mayo Clinic and Mower County “will continue to fight and advocate” for this baby huh? He was a HEALTHY baby when Lindsey had him and now he is extremely ill, and has had four blood transfusions, and take sin nutrition only through a tube in his stomach. Lindsey does NOT have AIDS, you monster. She does not have an “illness.” She is THE ONLY SURVIVOR OF THE PEDIATRIC AIDS TREATMENT AGENDA IN THE STATE BECAUSE SHE WAS TAKEN OFF AZT AS A TODDLER. ALL THE OTHER, 11 IN TOTAL, ARE DEAD. WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU. GET OFF MY WEBSITE AND DON’T COME BACK. HAVE YOU NO SHAME?

      1. The data from the child’s medical record indicate that Rico is not on AZT, even though you write and quote that he is. The child is the victim, not the mother. This torturous debacle could have been avoided had Lindsey taken the appropriate steps herself during pregnancy to prevent transmission to her unborn child. While she may be a long-term non-progressor, there is not guarantee that Rico will be so lucky.

      2. Celia, you are mentally ill. You clearly have a massive chip on your shoulder about society, the medical profession, and the world in general. If you want to disparage all the valued research done by doctors and medics over the last several decades, that’s really an issue for your and your psychiatrist. But please stop posting such anti-scientific nonsense on a website which can be accessed by those with credulous and vulnerable minds. You’re a borderline killer, and I hope one day you realise the damage you and your fellow science-deniers do.

        1. Her HIV + status was diagnosed in 1992, it’s 2013 now that’s 21 years.
          Could it have been longer if she hadn’t taken the AZT at the beginning perhaps?
          Her current illness is not thought to be AIDS, and it may be related to her being back on meds after years of being well without them.
          She has a Parkinsons like trembling and multiple other symptoms, but you are seizing upon this as an opportunity to blame it in not taking her medication. She is taking medication now. She has clearly said that her HIV medication was making her ill and that stopping it was what gave her the extra time she has had.
          In her own words ‘Follow the money” to see what’s really happening here.
          It is wrong to jump to and publicise the conclusions you have based only on her being ill, without any real knowledge of what caused her illness.
          It’s as if you found an AIDS denialist dead after a train crash and say “look he didn’t take his meds and now he’s dead within two years”
          I know it’s not the same thing, but it’s as unscientific as that! The thinking is as shallow.

    4. ask yourself if she had her kid? Would he be sick and dieing right now?everyone i know with hiv says meds make them sick. Its cleche in the comunity. Im negative im a blood doner im B negative i have no agenda. I live in this world with open eyes and mind. Don’t be a robot think for yourself.

    5. Normal Mom, unknown to you, there are hundreds of HIV positive moms in this country who do not have AIDS, may not even know they are HIV positive, and have given birth to healthy children who grow up to be normal, healthy adults. I’m speaking from intensely personal experience, having been there. I have an adult child, and a teenager, both wonderfully vigorously healthy. My hope is that everyone expressing these heavy judgements against Lindsey N. will take a deep breath, stop for a moment, and consider that they might not have all the information.

      1. It’s true that people can be HIV positive with no symptoms and no ill health of any kind until they get the diagnosis which has a curse like effect on them. If they panic and take the meds they get sick and die. There are now many examples of those who have been diagnosed and not taken the meds and lived, well.
        From the viscious and hateful tone of her replies (a normal mom/anonymous) I would guess this responder has vested interests in maintaining the most wicked global health hoax there has ever been AS FAR AS WE KNOW! What other tests screen us for contrived, (not detectable through symptoms) conditions, in order that we may be ‘treated in time’. When we had less healthcare and advice we were much healthier, us oldies know that for sure. We remember.

    6. You do not have to have AIDS to have HIV, and it has now been shown that you do not have to have HIV to have AIDS. That has been used as a pretext for given expensive medication.
      HIV has been present in mankind for centuries and is harmless. AIDS is caused by ingestion of toxic substances.

    7. First of all, there is no method for reliably diagnosing HIV in babies. PCR is not approved for diagnosis due to the extremely high rate of false positives, but only for tracking the effects of AIDS medication on “viral load” of people diagnosed with HIV by other means. These “other means” are antibody tests, and they’re also useless in babies because the mother’s antibodies show up in their bloodstream up to the age of 18 months.

      So whoever claims baby Rico y HIV-positive doesn’t know what he do she is talking about.

      The bottom line is: By orthodox standards, if left untreated only 20% of the babies born to HIV-positive mothers would get HIV. The other 80% will be born HIV-free without any treatment.

      So what this horrifying “preventive” protocol amounts to is poisoning 80 healthy babies in order to prevent transmission of HIV in 18. There’s an obvious ethical dilemma here…. how many children should be acceptable to maim or kill in order to help one? 10 healthy children? 100 healthy children? 1,000 children healthy children?

      The standards of ethical medicine preclude the prescription of “black boxed” meds (deadly meds) if the certainty in the diagnosis is lower than 80%. In the case of babies born to HIV mothers, the certainty of them getting HIV is below 20%… so it is far from ethically acceptable to poison these babies systematic in the hope they won’t get HIV, as the “prevention” is causing more damage than the unlikely disease.

  8. After The House of numbers, comes:
    The Emperor’s New Virus documentary. Whach it and sending your friends.

    VHI was inventid!!!!

  9. This is why I advocate for home birth. Most of the time, the meconium is a symptom of distress caused by unnecessary hospital interventions. I urge ALL pregnant women to look into home birthing to avoid these complications and hire a midwife who is likely to be respectful of parental rights. Once a laboring mother steps into a hospital, she, and her baby, basically sign their rights away and have to do whatever the docs say or risk having their baby being taken away. This happens a lot over the issue of vaccinations. Pregnant mothers BEWARE, if you give birth in a hospital, you have NO SAY in what they do to your baby.

  10. OMG! This family needs to get this baby out of the hospital and spirited away. Lindsey, John and Rico need to disappear forever. If this baby dies in the hospital then so should all the doctors, nurses, lawyers, social workers, police officers, and judges involved. This makes me sick to my stomach.

    1. The nurses and other carers probably don’t understand what is happening here. I pray that their eyes will be opened by Rico and that they will have the courage to admit their doubts to others at work. I feel sure that they must go home and look up stuff on the internet. We know that the professional publications don’t allow this information through, but once they search they must see that there is room for doubt.
      I guess the staff coffee room is a rum place to be right now, with feelings running high and tears often at the orders they have to follow.
      The pharmaceutical companies, they know. May those who have tried to suppress this come to understand just how wicked and murderous greed has led them to become. That would be a punishment on its own – though if you have no conscience, maybe it wouldn’t.

  11. Been following this circus for quite a number of years. I have known about Celia & her work covering this issue for quite some time.

    The ruse that an HIV-antibody positive newborn, whose immunity is undeveloped and passively acquired from his mother, requires AZT at this time seems unconscionable.

    This infant is will be 2 yrs before his _true_ HIV status is known and his natural immunity developed. Unfortunately, all AZT treatment of this newborn does is the latest manifestation of killing the messenger over this issue. Why? Because Lindsay Nagel, and by proxy her infant, represents what the HIV=AIDS orthodoxy can’t have: a highly visible surviving HIV-positive and non-antiretroviral-taking individual who, in her 20+ yrs of post-AZT treatment life, has not only survived but reproduced.

  12. Insanely cruel and defying logic , inhumane . Not to wait until the baby had developed his own immune system, even ….This is assault and battery to me . So full of holes. If they believed Mom was HIV Positive why did they not pursue her to take pro phylactic treatment while pregnant , if they believe what they are doing is right ..? Why did they allow breast feeding and then stop it ? Insanely stupid and cruel and dangerous. Poor baby and poor parents – hijacked by a medical profession that are nothing more than drug pushing thugs, often. Their notes are chilling….devoid of any human sense.

  13. This is truly horrifying, what thr hell is happening in america?! Where is the humanity and compassion for our fellow man? I am so pleased to be arm Australian and i sincerely hope from the bottom of my heart that you guys get through this xxx

  14. I’ll try to pass this link to people here in the Philippines. The world deserves to know the truth about HIV and AIDS!

  15. My name is David and I live in Barcelona (Spain) I saw the film “house of numbers” when I know the case of the family Nagel and where appropriate saw for the first time in my life and since then her daughter always called her “the daughter of Peter Duesberg” .. I’m sad about the situation of his daughter, her father and of your grandson Rico, it is unfair to do this to a living being that has just come into the world maybe all seh to be done by Nagel family that came in a documentary where questions the hypothesis of HIV / AIDS. I hope your grandson out of all this madness and is healthy and his family where it belongs.
    I wonder if your father has tested positive to the tests or not ..
    The thing about this whole issue is a horror, I send my support from afar, much encouragement!

  16. I can’t understand how the family would just allow these scumbags to slowly kill their baby, clearly all the medical staff are idiots who can’t think for themselves, and don’t even understand what HIV or ‘AIDS’ is. Show them ‘The Trouble with Nevirapine’, and as a previous poster has said, get their NAMES and tell them that THEY personally will be sued and charged with murder if this baby dies because of their actions.
    ps PLEASE can you fix this stupid form so that it has black text on a white background, rather than virtually invisible grey on grey?

  17. I can hardly breathe reading this insane story. I lost a grandchild to ‘chemo-nuke’ treatments done over four years to my beloved granddaughter Abigail. I truly feel that the American Medical Association is full of monsters who put ‘experimentation with poisons’ above the welfare of everyone. I am sorry, so very sorry for the situation Rico has been put in by monsters within the AMA, CPS, and BAR.

    1. In that case, Mary, you’re paranoid and mentally fragile. I’m sorry for your loss, but you need to get out there and read some real science books (as opposed to gibberish-spouting webpages such as this one) before spreading your misguided crap to others.

    2. I do feel for you, Mary and have seen several of my friends die at young ages from medical toxic injury. It’s clear reading through the comments on this page that the people supporting Lindsey,Rico and family are much kinder than those who oppose their view. They are hateful in their replies and I think it’s clear to us all why they are in such a frenzy. Their main fear is that this will become public knowledge, but we need to make that happen and expose one of the most hideous scams there has ever been. Let them dish out their panic induced venom if they feel it helps their cause. I think it exposes the kind of minds that are profiting from mass poisoning. The truth will out and when that happens their motives will be exposed.

  18. Someone defined insanity as continuing to do the same thing, over and over, despite absolute proof that it doesn’t work. this type of insanity is pandemic among brainwashed doctors.
    But up a level or two, what the drug companies, the Gates Foundation (aka “Fuck Africa”), Big Pharma,, their legislative lackeys, et alia are doing goes beyond simple insanity and oozes into ultimate evil; it is a place where the rich get richer by killing humans.
    And it’s not exclusive to the AIDS issue. It’s also cancer, Morgellons, and the whole gamut of Diseases of Civilization.
    We all know how we got here; the bigger question is: How do we get out of it?

    1. Sorry, what a load of bollocks. It’s that’s the the research of doctors and scientists (smarter people than you and me) and the development of a raft of anti-HIV drugs which now mean early diagnosis has minimal effect on lifespans. But I suppose you think that’s a bad thing! Just because you’re determined to think in a contrary fashion for your own messed-up reasons, doesn’t mean you should be spreading that garbage around. This place is just an echo chamber for ill-informed, recycled, paranoid views.

      1. Sorry, to correct a typo in my above post, it should begin, “It’s THANKS TO the research of doctors and scientists…”

  19. Steve, Cheryl, John and Lindsey. Another thought…make this personal to the “providers” that they are poisoning the child. Stand over them while they administer the drugs to baby Rico. Tell each one of the that they are poisoning a baby. Get their names and repeat them. Tell them you hold them personally responsible for poisoning a child. Repeat the Hippocratic oath to them: Above all else do no harm.” Make it personal! Be there every time they put drugs into little Rico. Be relentless! Call them at home. Ask them if they are really helping Rico. Make them feel what they know is true. They are killing a child. If they say they are only following orders tell them that is what the Nazis said. Be personal. That’s all you can do when there is medical tyranny. Point out the example of Lindsey’s good health without the drugs

    Good luck
    . Jeff and Joe

  20. Steve, Cheryl, John and Lindsey, We saw House of Numbers. It all makes sense. You are very brave. Keep up the fight to regain baby Rico. He belongs to you and not to the state. What a shame. The cop and the social worker should be ashamed. You could see it on their faces that they knew they were wrong. But I guess a paycheck and tyranny is more important to them than a child’s life. Stay brave.

    Jeff Hilton
    Joe Karwacki
    Miami Shores, FL

  21. “Currently has no legal guardian, no assigned foster parents.” Why? Where the parents not allowed to sign birth documents? If this has not been done by the parents it needs to be done. Otherwise, the county can sign the kids over to whomever they choose. One piece of paper can mean a lot. This is not something to be overlooked. If the family is complying with the hospital the should be non reason that you cannot fill out birth documentation stating where and with whom the boy should live, with his mother and family. Not in a hospital being treated as a lab rat.

  22. What can the people do to help? Have you considered starting a petition on change.org, bombarding the Mayo Clinic’s facebook page?

    1. I agree with Emmy….. it would be a good idea to begin with a petition on CHANGE. ORG . Here in Spain we have achieved many things by this method.

  23. am devastated by this story.

    dangerous mind control is quickly killing this child.

    the people working in the medical cabal are under classical, operant and cognitive conditioning

    (mind manipulation).

    they quite simply, help kill people, then get rewarded by payment and increased and enshrined status in popular “cult”ure.

    break the spell. wish that i could help in some way. will keep passing the link on to others.


    1. Only the weak and gullible (like you, evidently, Flo) can have their minds controlled. The rest of us are quite able to assess evidence impartially, see through smokescreens, and arrive at the truth without being manipulated. Don’t inflict your own shortcomings on the rest of us. Good luck sucking your root leaves should you ever succumb to an unfortunate illness. I thought Darwinism would have weeded out your sort by now. Hopefully soon.

      1. “There is more in this life than is dreamt of in your philosophy” (Shakespeare) Your arrogance is staggering, your rudeness appalling and you think that your overbearing manner will convince anyone that you understand much of life, you are mistaken, Sir!

        1. I’d like to know what relevance you think your quotation has, and what you think Shakespeare was implying. Shakespeare was a smarter kid than you. He’d have been pro-science, pro-research, pro-empirical evidence. Just for the record…

  24. What has happened to these people is horrifying, and I can’t help agreeing with Rosamel, that Lindsay should have gone “outside the official medical system” to give birth. Sadly, she didn’t.

    As for Lindsay being “HIV positive” but healthy, she is certainly not the only one. There was a good bit of publicity some years ago about people who were “immune to AIDS”. The eventually found that these people have certain genetic markers that apparently confer immunity. Has Lindsay been tested for these markers? Has Rico? There would seem to be two possible medical explanations for Lindsay being healthy but HIV+:

    1) She has the genetic immunity to HIV referred to above, or
    2) She doesn’t actually have HIV at all, but rather some other condition that causes tests for HIV antibodies to give a positive result.

    DNA tests could determine if 1) is the case. If it isn’t, then the TEM tests mentioned by Dr. de Harven could determine whether 2) is the case.

    Article about genetic immunity to HIV: http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2005/01/66198?currentPage=all

    1. I am from Spain, and since a lot time ago I thought that something in the HIV=AIDS story was wrong, due to too many incoherences and inconsistencies about it. Afterwards with the Gripe A, I do not know the name in English for this, perhaps FLUE A???? Well, this new announced HUGE PANDEMIA finished from night to day….when the TAMIFLU and all that was happening was seen as bizarre, the case is that one day you could see many people dying from this, according to media, and the next day the PANDEMIA WAS OVER !!!! How can it be so???? I believe that the TRUTH about the HIV will be known by humanity soon. I expect that this baby can be with his mother soon, healthy, because it would be very very sad that this baby would die due to all these drugs that he is taken, and which are very toxic. I am sure that because of the fact that this girl´s story was told in THE HOUSE OF NUMBERS video, and many people all over the world know that this girl survived 22 years without the retrovirals, quimiotherapy, and if besides this, this girl´s baby is healthy and lives as she does……it could be hard to believe the official medical information about the mortal VIH that causes SIDA. They are frightened for this. Anyway, the TRUTH about all this will be out there soon. TRUTH makes us FREE. On hearing this girl´s father´s voice and what he says has been so sadddd that I have not been able to control my tears…..and the image of this baby´s mother crying talking with the authorities…..Madre mía, es que tengo que decir esto en español, para desahogarme…..es TERRIBLE que esto esté ocurriendo en pleno s. XXI. Que la Verdad salga a la luz pronto. Gracias….Thank you.

  25. It was hard to read, not that Celia Farber is a bad writer. The most damning facts are that Lindsay lived and 11 other babies that continued on the “therapy”, died. Not one lived. I think the AIDS drugs gross around 10 billion a year. I don’t think that includes money spent on the testing and the research. This mindset unfortunately is not limited to AIDS issues.

    1. Anecdotal hogwash. Look at the overall figures for surviving HIV and Aids nowadays, with the complex and wondrous drugs at doctors’ disposal. That really is the end of the argument. It’s not ‘clever’ to think ‘differently’ when you are basing it on such flimsy flim-flam. Grow up “gepay” before it’s too late. I’m convinced all doctors involved in the care for this infant have its best interests at heart, and they must despair at this sort of pseudo-scientific balderdash being pedaled around so liberally.

      1. Yes, they probably do despair, many, at being forced to give harmful treatments to a well baby and watch him being harmed and and others at the battle that is being waged against the treatment they promote when their only weapon is bankrupt hypothesis that has never been proven supported by derision and jargon to try to belittle their opponents’ efforts.
        We are looking at the outcomes. We are all looking very hard, and feel that parents should be free to make a choice for their babies with regards to their healthcare, as Lindsey’s parents did, clearly a very wise decision.

        1. I seriously doubt there are many medical carers for this baby that resent having to give him his treatments. I’m not saying the parents have bad intentions here – I’m sure they don’t, in fact. But are they misguided as hell? You betcha. They cannot be as well-informed as professionals. No. Would you build an extension to your house single-handedly if you were a flower arranger? No – you’d ask a builder. Your hypothesis would require a global conspiracy of an almost unimaginable scale. I’ll stick to the wonderful world of science and medicine. ONCE AND FOR ALL: “Mum DOESN’T always know best”.

  26. Hi Celia,
    I hope you are hanging in there. Been following everything that’s been happening to Rico with tears in my eyes. I have written a letter to Beppe Grillo in Italy, and I have linked him to your article about baby Rico, I have also contacted a few Julian Assange’s fan page, so they could post Rico’s story on their wall. So far one of them has responded and will share the story.
    I feel ashamed to say the least because I don’t know how else to help. I will send a letter to Julia Gillard today (the Prime Minister) though I’m not sure how my letter will be received.
    The important thing is to never stop fighting.
    I am a very big fan of yours, and I stalk your page everyday, and remember I am always applauding you, and hugging you, and supporting you from afar

  27. It’s funny how Seth Kalichman has argued that we are the ones suffering from some kind of mental illness. When I went to the Manhattan screening of House of Numbers, there were three people protesting outside – Jeanne Bergman and two men, all three of them spitting mad, hysterical, radiating hatred. And I mean palpably radiating. I could feel it like a nuclear shock wave. I’d never felt anything like it (and speaking as a victim of rape when I was young, I think that’s saying something). Beth Ely calmly, respectfully, tried to engage Jeanne in dialogue, while Jeanne was just boiling, red-faced, screaming. I spoke to the man on the left, and I’d like to think we actually got somewhere, in that he seemed to acknowledge where I was coming from. Meanwhile, while I was trying to have a rational conversation, the fellow in the middle was staring at me and grinning like a madman and mocking my gestures. It was a surreal moment, that’s for sure.

  28. In situations like this one I regret being a pacifist. I would otherwise have loved to show up at taxpayer funded theatrical AIDS truthers’ bird brain pigsties and riot. (Series of encounters with individuals representing these institutions have really given me the impression that the people there are totally misinformed and/ or hysterical and/ or even severely mentally ill (and surprisingly often they also come across as sado-masochistic or self destructive). To be honest I have yet to meet one single person from their side who makes sense.
    Leave the boy Rico, his parents and the rest of the family alone! They have done nothing wrong. In fact the family seems to have done everything right. Lindsey, the boys mother, now 22 tested HIV positive 22 years ago upon entering the United States from Romania from where she was adopted and where she was found HIV negative and she is the only surviving child from that era in her US-area because she was the only one taken off AZT, the drug that was given against “HIV”; the alleged virus which was then thought -and still unfortunately by those stock in the past or those with reputations and too much at stake- to be the cause of AIDS. AZT is a DNA-chain terminator. Death from taking this drug daily and at high doses can hardly be considered a “side effect.”

  29. Wasn’t the second amendment written to protect us from such tyranny? What is the peaceful way to protect our helpless children from death at the hands of well meaning but misinformed health care professionals and protective services agents?

  30. Pingback: » Save Rico
  31. Speechless. We press on in prayer for Rico, Lindsey, John, Cheryl and Steve. This is so wrong. We are praying for a miracle and sense on the part of the hospital. Lindsey is a hero…an awesome woman and mom and I cannot bear to witness and read this…PRAYERS….Keep praying John…

      1. Oj, you speak the vulgar tongue, I hope that whoever you are, you are able to heal whatever damage you have incurred.. you are supposed to pay compassion forward, not hate

    1. I am horrified by the story of poor little Rico….
      What can we do ? Speed up the testing, by Transmission electron microscopy (TEM), (NOT by Scanning electron microcopy, SEM, please !!) of the blood and blood plasma of both Lindsey Nagel and of little Rico to demonstrate the total absence of any HIV or any retrovirus in these samples. This can be arranged with Andy Maniotis. Samples should include plasma samples, concentrated by appropriate retrovirological methods. TEM examination of “buffy coats” cellular samples is absolutely insufficient to achieve a convincing demonstration.
      I am available for any methodolgical advice, any time, of course.
      Etienne de Harven, M.D., retrovirologist, electron microscopist.

      1. More testing? “(T)o demonstrate the total absence of any HIV”? But there IS a trigger that shows “HIV” in both mother and child, not an absence.

        It’s the fact that this “HIV” is harmless and mistakenly assumed to be a cause of disease (“AIDS” — a syndrome, not an actual singular disease) that is totally missing from the above comment and from the logic of the doctors (and lawyers) in charge of killing this poor, innocent child.

        1. Greg, you say “But there IS a trigger that shows “HIV” in both mother and child, not an absence.”

          Of course you are quite mistaken. See http://www.omsj.org/ where they discuss the forty or so other things that cause a test result of HIV+.

          Even the test insert says that it does NOT prove an HIV infection. The test was made not to show HIV infection, but rather to protect the blood supply from possible HIV contamination. The “House of Number” film, available online now goes in to some detail on the matter.

      2. Good idea….its insane cruel defies human sense. It is about an agenda , forcing it on any one who dares to object or show holes in their argument. And there are enough ignorant people in the world to uphold their actions as just and responsible…have courage new parents and hang on in there. The way they have approached this …ugly…awful. Why did they wait until the baby was born to force their agenda ? They don’t even follow their own guidelines – no treatment of the mother during pregnancy, breastfeeding started then stopped . A gastro tube to feed drugs to baby ..insane dogma. They could have treated with antibiotics and let baby breastfeed …if they thought he was hiv positive by their reasoning.

      3. It’s ok Etienne whoever the f you are that no one cares, Lindsey Nagel died not too long after all of this so you don’t need to worry about it 🙂

    2. So it is……What I do not understand is why Lindsey went to give birth to her child to a hospital. She could not think that this would happen ???? Why she did not give birth to her child with a midwife at home???? What I mean is that she should have gone outside the official medical system.

      1. Probably out of fear that this would happen – baby taken away by CPS. These people are very intimidating and need to be challenged ahead of time, pre emptively…..at least the Judge seemed to have one or two scathing comments to make about their taking baby away from his mother. How cruel – to allow breast feeding and then to totally arrest it. They have to supervise their drug enforcement – it is so dangerous, and they know it . How could they establish baby was in need of ARVs so soon after birth when they did nothing during pregnancy to test /monitor/treat the mother. Sue them – their entire management of their own dogma defies any logic . Sue them for not treating mother in final trimester of pregnancy – when by their own ‘scientific’ argument, ‘transmission’ is reduced to less than 2%. They know breastfeeding is better than not , but they stopped it . Any way they can thieve from nature they do it seems.

        1. they dont bother to enforce their own dogma , in pregnancy but want to treat mother and father like criminals after the birth and ruin it for them.. welcome to the new age of dystopia.

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